Life in Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia oblast, from an expert who just visited the front lines

• Melinda Haring spoke to Insider about visiting the frontlines in Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine,.
• A senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, Haring said Ukrainians are both determined and struggling.
• In the village of Orikhiv, civilians shelter in basements and hand pump their own water.

Far removed from the conflict, it can be easy to forget that the war in Ukraine is not just a policy debate or something for Democrats and Republicans to argue about. To millions of Ukrainians, it is not an abstraction but a distressingly real, daily experience where life goes on — its highs and lows — while bombs fall all around.

Melinda Haring confronted that reality on an October trip to Ukraine, leaving the comfort of the West, and the relative safety of Kyiv, to speak with soldiers, civilians, and activists on the frontlines in the village of Orkihiv, located in the southeastern oblast of Zaporizhzhia, a region home to Europe's largest nuclear power plant and tens of thousands of Russian troops.

Haring is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a Washington-based think tank, where she previously served as deputy director of the Eurasia Center, which aims to promote democratic reform in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. She now serves as an advisor at Razom, a nonprofit group that supports civil society in Ukraine.

She spoke to Insider about why Ukrainians want peace — but not at any cost — and how morale is holding up some 600 days after Russia's full-scale invasion.

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

As somebody who's just been to Ukraine, and as I understand it, close to the frontlines, what did you see?

I spent two days in Zaporizhzhia and went to Orikhiv. It's on the frontlines. It has 15,000 Ukrainian troops in the basements of the apartment buildings — and the Russians are shelling it every day. There's only 1,200 Ukrainian citizens left, and they're mostly elderly. There's three working stores, but no building is untouched. The school is damaged; the church is damaged, everything has been hit; the bus station is damaged; it just goes on and on and on. The military-civilian authority showed me around and he showed us his house. His house had been destroyed. He went to work an hour before the Russians attacked.

We went into a shelter in Orikhiv and it was in one of these old Soviet residential buildings, went into the basement and there's a bunch of old people. They're in the basement —  they're dank, they're windowless, they have no running water, no toilets — and elderly people are living in these places, and they padlock them. They have twin beds. They have just a teapot and some of their cooking supplies and bags on the walls and some of their clothing. And I asked the people, "What do you do during the day? Where do you spend your time?" And they mostly spend their time in the shelters. They have sort of a communal area too, where you can sit at a table, and you can chat. But they also do go home. They do their laundry at home, they bathe at home, and some of them work on their gardens, but it's a really dismal place to go.

There's nothing left in this village, but the Russians continue to shell it because there's 15,000 Ukrainian troops there. And it's hard to tell where the Ukrainian troops are. It looks like it's a hollowed-out, nearly destroyed building, but then you get close to the building, and you'll hear the hum of a generator, and you'll see graffiti that says, "Warning/Danger. Ukrainian soldiers, go away." And the Ukrainian soldiers are in the basement.

Regarding the older civilians who have stayed behind, the obvious question is: "Why?"

You get a mix of answers. For some, it's too expensive to move. There's not enough housing in Zaporizhzhia, which is the nearest, closest safe city. They don't feel comfortable there. They're afraid that someone will loot their house. And then there's probably a small percentage of them that — no one's going to admit this — but that have pro-Russian sympathy and want the Russians to move in.

These are older and infirm people. These are people in their 70s and 80s and their lives are there. There's a city well — there's one well in Orikhiv that works. I was there on a Saturday morning. We figured that the Russians were too lazy to shell early on Saturday morning; that they were still hungover from the night before.

We were there from 7:30 a.m. to 9:30 a.m. and the well that we went to wasn't working. It was having mechanical problems. People have to go there and hand pump their water. They bring their bikes. I saw a guy, he brought his bike. He has a container of water that he fills. He puts it back on his bike and then rides his bike home to this completely bombed-out village. And that's how he gets his fresh water. Two people were killed there two days prior to us being there, but that's one of the only lifelines.

There's three stores that remain open and the bestsellers are all stimulants. It's coffee, cigarettes, and chocolate. Those are the three bestsellers at the stores. And there's a market, and the market has great, beautiful fresh produce. And there were Ukrainian soldiers chit-chatting with the older ladies there buying food. And there's dogs. And it's probably the most joyful place in this little city.

What is the morale among the civilian and military population?

I had a lot of really interesting conversations. I spoke with Ukrainian soldiers in Zaporizhzhia. I spoke with a bunch of people. They're flinty and steely and determined. But when you talk to them for more than five minutes, they'll tell you that there's frustration that Ukrainian soldiers haven't been rotated out. The same set of Ukrainian soldiers that's been serving has been serving for more than 600 days. They only get 30 days off a year and those 30 days are not contiguous, you can only take 10 at a time. So they haven't seen much of their family.

And a lot of them feel like there's not a whole-of-society effort behind them. There's a lot of people who are in Kyiv posing for selfies and eating in restaurants, while a small segment of Ukrainian society is the one that's sticking its neck out. That's a common feeling. There's a lot of stories of divorce and of family separation and also depression. And a lot of PTSD.

Did any of the soldiers that you spoke to discuss what they want, either from their own government or from the American government? Just in general, what are their needs on the frontlines?

It depends. The medic that I spoke to said they need more armored cars. He does not have enough armored cars to get his guys out, and it's an acute need. And so he has people bleed out because he can't evacuate them to a hospital. It's particularly bad in the summer. It's less bad in the winter.

June and July are hard months because there's just a lot more light. There's a need for tourniquets. There's a need for cars. I went to an NGO in Zaporizhzhia and they need vehicles to deliver aid supplies — the Ukrainians in general. I also went to a drone school and I saw pilots learning how to become pilots. I got to fly a drone. I got to see a bunch of drones. And a lot of the pieces are poor quality. They're shoddy, they're made in Chinese factories, and there's no attention to detail. They're missing pieces. They're broken when they arrive. The Ukrainians are way behind the Russians on drones, and this is the future of the war. Ukraine doesn't have enough drone pilots and they don't have enough sophisticated drones.

These are surveillance drones used for artillery spotting and stuff like that?

There's two major categories of drones. There's the surveillance drones, and then there's the attack drones; the surveillance drones are bigger, and the attack drones are smaller. I saw both of those, and some of them are used for spotting. The kamikaze drones are used to drop bombs.

And you were not terribly impressed? Because my sense was that maybe it was the Russians that were struggling with drone technology — that they were the ones trying to catch up after the war started.

No, other way around. The Russians are really, really good at this, and they poured a lot of technology and resources into this. They're ahead of the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians are trying to catch up.

I think the disappointing part to me is that the Ukrainian government has made a big deal out of this. And when you talk to a local activist and people who are trying to fill this need on the ground, they'll say that the government effort is not enough, and that the subsidies that the government has committed is not enough. And that's why, of course, Ukrainian civil society is jumping into the gap, again, and it's training drone pilots and buying drones itself.

This is a common theme of Ukrainian politics. It doesn't matter the sector, where there's state failure, Ukrainian civil society fixes it…. When you speak with local activists and these people who are actually doing the work, they'll say that the government is not doing a good job and that they need to move it, pronto, or the Ukrainians are not going to be able to compete. The Russians are also a lot better at electronic warfare.

One thing that really surprised me with what you just said is that we have had so many high-profile debates about what next, advanced piece of equipment Ukraine is ready to get, whether it be F-16s or various missiles. But there's so many of the basics they're lacking — you're talking about tourniquet kits and armored vehicles. I couldn't imagine any concerns in Western capitals about those being given to Ukraine.

Is that a shock to you? What do you think explains the lack of basic equipment that you would think allies would've been eager to supply?

I think allies have supplied a lot of this equipment, but this is more than 600 days of war. And this is a hot war, and they're burning through equipment very quickly. They're burning through shells very quickly. You can use a tourniquet once and then you got to throw it out. And ambulances don't last very long. Armored cars don't last very long. So I'm not particularly surprised.

When I was talking to soldiers on the frontlines, they did say, overall, the mood was one of determination, but also: "We can't keep doing this without air power. You can't ask us to do this. You can't ask us to fight in a way you wouldn't fight yourself." They're very eager to have air cover.

One thing that I was surprised with is we have these intricate debates about, "What is victory?" Does it mean going back to the 1991 borders? Does it include Crimea, all these sorts of interesting debates. But when you go and talk to soldiers, they just want to go home. They want peace and they want to go home. When you talk to actual Ukrainians, they're not getting caught up in, "Is it Crimea? Is it the '91 borders?" They want to be able to go home, and they don't want their children to be hit with rockets. It's a very minimal standard. They want their life to resume. They want economic life to resume, but they want peace.

Would it be fair to say that means they want an immediate ceasefire? Just freeze the conflict at its current boundaries and end the killing.

Absolutely not. The Ukrainians will continue to fight. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. Ukrainians are tired, they're exhausted, and they want a normal, stable, safe life. But they are unwilling to give up their land and their territory. This fight for them is existential. If they stop fighting, they will lose their homelands, and they will lose their lives. So, no, they're not willing to give up their homeland. And Russia is not serious about a real negotiation.

And I would also say that the Ukrainians feel like they have given too much. So after Bucha, after Irpin, after all of the war crimes we've seen, the Ukrainians have lost too much to concede any territory. And you have to remember, this is not Putin's first rodeo in Ukraine. He went in in 2014, and he tried to annex a big chunk of the country. Ukrainians remember that. And they know that Putin is not going to be satisfied with, "Oh, let's give him Crimea in exchange for peace." They know that he's going to come back. He'll reconstitute his forces and he'll be back at it.

These soldiers — you've just come from the frontlines, you've heard what they want. What do you say to a US senator who is wondering why we should keep supporting this, and how should that support manifest itself?

I would say, senator, what happens in Ukraine doesn't stay in Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine is 5,000 miles away, and it's not self-evident what US interests are in Ukraine. And I think we need to do a better job of explaining what our interests are there. But Putin is not going to be satisfied with Ukraine, and if he's able to take Ukraine — once he's able to take Ukraine, if we allow him to take Ukraine, I will put it that way — then he's going to go after Poland or go after a Baltic state. And the United States has treaty obligations with NATO to come to the defense of Poland or any of the Baltic states, and it will be far more expensive to fight Putin in a NATO country than in Ukraine. So let's stop him in Ukraine. So that's one reason: it's cheaper to do it now.

Number two is the moral argument that Americans have always stood on the side of the underdog. And might doesn't make right. We're not going to let some bully rewrite the rules of the international system. It's against our nature as Americans. And I think those are the big arguments that I would use for a congressman.

And I think the third one is probably even the most important, that what happens in Ukraine is having an effect around the world. So if we allow Putin to get away with it, then he's going to go after Taiwan, and we're going to see more of this kind of behavior everywhere, and that's not a world that I want to live in.

Was there anything else from your trip that was surprising?

The attitude is just so different. I went and met with the authorities in Zaporizhzhia, and we had a nice chat, and I was asking them what they're worried about. They're not worried about the Russians hitting the nuclear power plant. The Russians do not have enough precise rockets to hit the power plant, and they have enough air defense systems to protect the power plant. So CNN and a lot of the big media in the US have done a lot of reporting on the power plant, of course. And the locals are not very worried about it. They said, worst-case scenario is that there will be two to three weeks of blackouts. Ukraine is expecting the Russians to hit the grid again and to try to bring down critical infrastructure. And they're not terribly worried about it. They're prepared for it. The Russians did it last year, so there's no element of surprise this time.

And I asked my favorite American question: "What policies and programs are you putting in place to make sure that everyone gets through the winter and that people's spirits are restored?" And they looked at me like I was an alien, and they said, we don't need that stuff. And I said, pardon me? They said, we don't need your programs. We need a hundred bomb shelters so we can reopen our schools. In Zaporizhzhia, they have closed all of their schools and everyone's online. This is two years of COVID education and 600 days of war, so these kids are going to be super behind. The thing that I'm worried about right now is the loss of human capital and human potential in Ukraine.